“There is nothing that interests you that will not be dear to me” is such a powerful statement said to Lucy, who as we can easily guess is prone to masks and dismissing parts of herself she thinks may be uninteresting to other people. Mina knows this tendency and constantly reassures her: No I don’t think it’s frivolous of you to talk about your wedding dress, or think it’s boring to hear you debate about public vs private weddings, or think it’s self-absorbed to get caught up in whatever little detail—I love hearing any of it because I love you!
Jon, after recording his statement about Mr. Spider: I don’t have any evidence to prove this, of course. If I had given this statement to myself I would have dismissed it out of hand.
Jon, every time he actually gets a statement about a Leitner: I know this is true and am going to fistfight Elias for not doing enough to protect people from these fuCKING books—
Who did Jon actually suspect in TMA season 2?
An age-old fandom joke is to make fun of season 2 Jon for “accusing Tim and Martin of murder” and “he suspected everyone but Not!Sasha.” I’m on a roll from my “did season 1 Jon dismiss statements” series, so now I gotta tackle this one!
My main goal is to point out the times he DID suspect Not!Sasha--and was the only human on the team to do so--but for the hell of it I’m going to keep a tally of how many times he mentions investigating/suspecting each person. I’m also going to note other out-of-place things Jon noticed, some of which were due to Leitner, but definitely played a role in confirming that someone within the archives was being deceptive.
TMA 41 Too Deep - “Elias is a prime suspect, but it could have been any of them.”
TMA 42 Grifter’s Bone - Jon is nervous about Martin’s sudden doting and attentive behavior. He goes through Martin’s poetry and letters.
TMA 44 Tightrope - Jon discovers that someone had been rifling through his desk drawer with the secret tapes. (possibly Leitner)
TMA 45 Blood Bag - Jon looks into Tim’s background and takes photos of his house.
TMA 46 Literary Heights - Jon discovers that someone with a key has been using the trapdoor into the tunnels. Everyone denies it when he asks.
TMA 47 A New Door - Michael tells Jon “they’re lying to you, you know.”
TMA 48 Lost in the Crowd - Jon reveals that he already looked into Sasha’s background and found nothing unusual, but is now conflicted about whether Michael’s warning was genuine or if he was just messing with his head. After Elias confronts him for spying on the others and tells him to stop investigating, Jon doubles down on his suspicion of him.
TMA 49 Butcher’s Window - Jon looks into Elias’s background. (Running tally: mentioned Elias 3 times vs. 1 for everyone else!)
TMA 51 High Pressure - Jon records a conversation with Sasha in Artefact Storage, then finds that she’s been visiting a wax museum every few days during her lunch breaks.
TMA 52 Exceptional Risk - Jon confronts Sasha about her long lunch breaks, learns about the “boyfriend.” (Running tally: 3 for both Elias and Sasha, 1 for the other two!)
TMA 56 Children of the Night - Jon confronts Martin over ‘lying’ to him about Trevor’s death, brings up the letter he found. After learning about his faked CV, this is the last time Jon expresses suspicion over Martin. (I also can’t help but point out the previous few episodes show Jon softening towards Martin, with him inviting himself out to lunch with Martin in TMA 53 and learning the jar of ashes was real in TMA 55. The severity of the confrontation no doubt is influenced by how much he let his guard down and it taking it especially hard since it’s Martin) Grand total for Martin: 2
TMA 57 Personal Space - Jon searches Sasha’s desk. Sasha is now in the lead with 4!! “Suspected everyone but the Not!Them” my ass!!!
TMA 58 Trail Rations - Jon records a conversation between Martin and Tim. He confirms he no longer suspects Martin, but doubles down on his worries about Tim.
TMA 59 Recluse - Jon notices the others avoiding and talking about him (planning the upcoming intervention).
TMA 60 Observer Effect - Everyone confronts Jon over his behavior. After reviewing the doctored CCTV footage (a monthlong process, according to Tim in TMA 65), Jon decides to stop investigating them. “I can’t quite figure out whether this exoneration of my colleagues is more of a relief or a frustration. At the very least, it seems I have been... I have been rather unfair to them.”
Running total so far:
- Sasha: 4
- Elias: 3
- Martin: 2
- Tim: 2
The investigations stop temporarily, before Jon’s suspicion of Sasha is renewed, but it’s fascinating that fandom collectively forgot that Jon looked into Sasha as much as Martin and Tim combined, and mentioned Elias as his primary suspect twice, but somehow concluded “Jon accused Tim and Martin of murder, while ignoring Elias and Sasha!”
TMA 68 Tale of a Field Hospital - Jon notices that Sasha “seemed far too tall” in the tunnels, and that he didn’t recognize her at first.
TMA 76 The Smell of Blood - After Melanie accuses Jon of toying with her about Sasha, Jon turns his full attention towards her. “There’s more than one thing in the files that can trick you. I can’t just ignore it.”
TMA 77 The Kind Mother - Jon learns about the Not!Them, and realizes Sasha has been killed and replaced. “If it’s here, if Sasha… I’m going to find out how to kill it.”
And here we have our final total!!
- Sasha: 7
- Elias: 3
- Martin: 2
- Tim: 2
Does Jon deny all the statements/the Supernatural ROUND EIGHT: TMA 36-39
At last...the final installment I procrastinated on as I got caught up in my s2 relisten. And the thrilling conclusion!!
- TMA 36 - Taken Ill: “Another tale full of dead ends,” Jon says. The lack of documentation and corroborating evidence for this one was notable even to Sasha, but Jon notes that “based on this statement, that’s not necessarily a point of incredulity.” AND THEN!! This entire last paragraph deserves attention!!
Still, there’s a lot here that puts me in mind of other statements. Something in the way Ms. Baxter talks about fear. I can’t help but be reminded of statement 0142302, how Jane Prentiss talks about her own fears. And the old man and his companion… who does that remind me of? If he wasn’t dead, I’d think it might have been Trevor –
Jon, is your academic detachment fleeing you again? Did you forget that you’re supposed to be pretending not to believe these? Look at you comparing the vibes of the statement to one you’ve already stated you believe (and for the correct entity too!), working off your gut feeling again! Look at you making connections to statement-givers that it took me three listens to catch! These are not the words of a dismissive researcher. Conclusion: Not dismissed, connected to other statements.
- TMA 37 - Burnt Offering: Jon admits that there’s no evidence that would require that this incident is supernatural, but doesn’t go so far to say it isn’t. Despite the lack of definitive corraborating support, Jon concludes shakily, “I have no idea what this means. I have no idea what any of this means. I’m...very tired.” Conclusion: Not dismissed.
- TMA 38 - Lost and Found: The last statement of season 1!! Here, Jon is clearly on the way to supporting it: “Before I dig too deeply into the background of this statement, I feel I should mention something that puts much of it in a slightly different light.” He then brings up the half-empty marriage license, then goes on to talk about Salesa as the source of many of the items in Artefact Storage--which he and his fellow professed-skeptic Sasha easily agree is full of genuinely supernatural items. Conclusion: Supported.
TMA 39 AND CONCLUSION
Throwing the rest under a cut as I tie it all together!
Let’s look at both Martin’s accusation and Jon’s response.
Martin: Why do you do that?
Jon: Do what?
Martin: Push the skeptic thing so hard? I mean, it made sense at first, but now? After everything we’ve seen, after everything you’ve read! I hear you recording statements and you just dismiss them! You tear them to pieces like they’re wasting your time, but half of the ‘rational’ explanations you give are actually more far-fetched than just accepting it was a...a ghost or something. I mean for god’s sake, Jon, we’re literally hiding from some kind of worm…queen…thing, how-- how could you possibly still not believe?
“It made sense at first” is a very curious comment here. If you look back over my past posts, Jon is more critical of the earlier statements, but Martin thought that approach made sense. However, more recently, Martin feels Jon has gotten more vicious and more in denial. There’s a few important things to note, here:
- As I noted in my previous entry in this series, Jon flat-out stated that he knew the “worm queen thing” was supernatural. Apparently, Martin hasn’t listened to this statement, which in turn shows that Martin isn’t listening to 100% of Jon’s recordings.
- Jon is also recording dozens of false statements. Which--as time goes on--he is more and more sure they’re false. As soon as something starts recording to the laptop, the “this is fake” sign starts flashing in Jon’s brain. He’s trying to be kinder to Martin and not take his stress out on him, so imagine him unleashing all his stress and fear by ranting about the statements he knows are lies, or pranks, or superstitions, or “I think my weird neighbor is a cultist,” or “I had sleep paralysis but I’m pretty sure it was a demon,” or conspiracy theories... Martin is hearing all of this! Martin doesn’t have the Beholding instinct of feeling the weight of a god’s gaze on his back whenever a Real Statement is being read! He’s hearing Jon snarl and snark about a good 98% of what they record, and it’s a matter of chance for whether he even listens to the 2% that were caught on tape--and that we hear in the show.
- Martin was really, really worked up about the Carlos Vittery statement. Just like what happens with a lot of listeners, that one no doubt stood out in his mind as the #1 example of “Jon comes up with bullshit explanations to brush off stuff that is OBVIOUSLY weird” that would easily overshadow more rational follow-ups like “this person admitted to drinking heavily that night.”
So what is Jon confessing to?
Jon: Of course I believe! Of course I do. Have you ever taken a look at the stuff we have in Artefact Storage? That’s enough to convince anyone. But...but even before that… Why do you think I started working here? It’s not exactly glamorous. I have… I’ve always believed in the supernatural. Within reason. I mean...I still think most of the statements down here aren’t real. Of the hundreds I’ve recorded, we’ve had maybe thirty, forty that are…that go on tape. Now, those, I believe, at least for the most part.
Martin: Then why do you--
Jon: Because I’m scared, Martin! Because when I record these statements it feels…it feels like I’m being watched. I… I lose myself, a bit. And then when I come back, it’s like like if I admit there may be any truth to it, whatever’s watching will…know somehow. The skepticism, feigning ignorance... It just felt safer.
Here, Jon is repeating what we’ve seen the whole time: that he never said he doesn’t believe the supernatural, as we’ve seen from how up-front he is about the danger Leitner tomes pose, and how much effort he makes in the follow-up. The difference is that after a certain point he knows which are and aren’t real right off the bat--
--but doesn’t admit it.
It isn’t that he’s accusing them all of being fake, it’s that he KNOWS they’re true, but Hive is the only one where he admits “I know this is true because I can feel it.” He’s feigning ignorance--pretending that he doesn’t know in his gut that those 2% are real. That’s where the professional skepticism comes in, which genuinely is part of his job! He’s relying on his skills as a researcher, using corroborating evidence and follow-up to verify the likelihood of a statement being a prank, a lie, a misunderstanding, or something genuinely paranormal.
In reality, Jon feels the weight of those eyes on him the moment the tape recorder clicks on, and has to pretend he doesn’t know right away that it’s real.
Does Jon deny all the statements/the Supernatural ROUND SEVEN: TMA 31-35
Oops I fell behind because I was most excited about doing Sasha’s episode. But we got another milestone development in this batch!
- TMA 31 - First Hunt: Neither confirmed nor denied. Jon admits he’s not going to investigate this one, bookending the commentary with how scared he is with Prentiss looming. Conclusion: None
- TMA 32 - Hive: “We still don’t have any evidence that Prentiss is actually paranormal. It could just be an unknown, aggressive parasite. There are weird things out there that are perfectly natural. It’s not, though. I know it’s not natural. Somehow I… I feel it. I’m sorry, my academic detachment seems to have fled me.” I CANNOT OVERSTATE HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS. Here Jon is skipping over doing his job of weighing the evidence vs. other possible explanations, recording his gut feeling that he knows Prentiss is supernatural. That’s not how investigations are supposed to work! And he immediately admits this, that he’s supposed to have ~academic detachment~ and not just conclude off his feelings, but he can’t help it. Also important: Martin must have not listened to this tape before Prentiss’s attack; he could have easily pulled out “I heard you admit that you know Prentiss is supernatural” in his argument, but instead went with “why do you not believe ANYTHING.” Conclusion: Believed.
- TMA 33 - Boatswain’s Call: Part of Jon’s job is to narrow down what specific element of a statement is potentially supernatural to compare it to the evidence, and in this case says there wasn’t any precise moment--BUT he still ends up talking to Elias about it, on an off-limits topic, because of all the circumstantial weirdness he found. He also gets so very pissy at how “Elias gets very twitchy when we look into anything that might conceivably have funding repercussions”; he WANTS to dig deeper, and chafes at the limitations Elias’s donor-seeking puts on him. Quite opposite of the “this is all bullshit and a waste of my time” characterization. Conclusion: Possibly supernatural, brought up with Elias.
- TMA 34 - Anatomy Class: Jon lines up the factors against this statement being real vs. what they could verify. Each time he states one of his (fabricated) doubts, he states a reason against it: “the admin contact could have been in on it, but Tim believes her” “it’s possible the teeth were planted in the apple, but it’s a long way to go for a joke” (side note: there are many real cases of people planting objects in food as hoaxes, so “the teeth may have been planted as a joke” has real-life basis). In the end, Jon doesn’t come to a solid conclusion. Conclusion: Suspicious but nothing confirmed.
- TMA 35 - Old Passages: “From an evidence standpoint, this case is a complete bust. However, too many of the names and features match with other statements for me to dismiss it.” Jon had a flat-out cover-up on his hands, where the only evidence he could find from his digging was lies, but there’s Gerry! There’s Leitner! Jon knows his stuff and is making connections! Conclusion: Not dismissed.
This is the segment where Jon’s fear is making his own coping mechanism against the fear crack, but also where his natural curiosity is showing through. “I’ll just feign disbelief” Jon says, but is still burning to know what’s really behind the statements he by now knows are true, and we all know how bad a liar Jon is. Up to this point, it’s been really interesting to see how much Jon relies on his tone to convey disbelief and skepticism, while the actual words almost always leave the possibility open: it’s very much a performance. And here he doesn’t even properly perform; he’s tangibly afraid of a threat he admits is supernatural at this point, even bringing it up in recordings that have nothing to do with the case.
Does Jon deny all the statements/the Supernatural ROUND SIX: TMA 26-30
I’ve been excited to get to this batch for ages because it’s time for y’all to meet the real skeptic: Sasha James
- TMA 26 - A Distortion: To get it out of the way: “If she says that this is what happened, then I believe her.” It’s a bit hilarious that Jon gives the disclaimer that he might not believe one of the others so easily, but PAL YOU ALREADY BELIEVE MARTIN more than anyone else in the whole Institute!!
In the meantime, TMA 26 is incredibly underrated and underused for so many excellent Sasha characterization details!! Among these is “I’ve always considered myself a bit of a skeptic, and until recently I’d have said working at the Institute only made me more so.” We already know that Jon’s skepticism was an act for Beholding, but Sasha? That’s just what she’s like.
And then, of course, the big one, where she actually has evidence and eyewitness testimony and access to the threats Jon got over texts: “Well, I’m sure you know I was skeptical about how dangerous this Jane Prentiss was when you first suggested Martin stay in the archive.” Oh, and this is with the documentation that Prentiss killed six people while escaping the hospital, not to mention the Squirm statement....but is Prentiss really a threat? I mean, if Martin can encounter her and survive....
Anyway! Conclusion: Instantly believed, Jon badgers Elias again for more protections.
- TMA 27 - A Sturdy Lock: “He admits himself that he has no proof of any of it. Yet part of me still wants to believe him.” The follow-up almost exclusively brings up other peoples’ accounts contradicting the details of the statement, and Jon is inclined to believe it anyway despite there being obvious other possible explanations. From the sound of it, Jon was the one who took him the most seriously, even compared to his family members. Conclusion: Not dismissed.
- TMA 28 - Skintight: Another widely misinterpreted one! The much-maligned “Jon told Melanie she was full of shit” characterization comes down to one line: “And you’re sure you weren’t dreaming?” A pretty basic follow-up question, and almost identical to the “You’re sure about this?” question he asked after Martin’s statement. Even despite the offense Melanie took to the question and the subsequent argument, Jon doesn’t dismiss the statement! He starts with “there’s little we can follow up,” but a significant amount of follow-up was made, and Jon planned to review earlier files to see what “Sarah Baldwin” reminded him of. He also examined the two recoverable frames of the footage Melanie got and made his own Spooky Notes on it. Conclusion: Not dismissed.
- TMA 29 - Cheating Death: Someone gives an account of inheriting and passing on the role of the Grim Reaper, and Jon doesn’t even make any snarky comments as he attempts follow-up and immediately hits a dead end. Conclusion: Not dismissed.
- TMA 30 - Killing Floor: Jon details the follow-up attempts they made for this one, most of which resulted in no additional info. He makes no comments doubting the experience. Conclusion: Not dismissed.
We’re in the home stretch! I’m building up to a thought with all of these for what Jon actually meant by his confession in TMA 39, but you’ll need to stick with me until then.
Does Jon deny all the statements/the Supernatural ROUND FIVE: TMA 21-25
IT’S TIME FOR YOU KNOW WHO~
- TMA 21 - Freefall: Thanks to Martin rushing in with Worm Time, Jon didn’t complete his post-statement comments. That said, despite Jon starting with the most theatrically put-upon tone of “before we address whether the sky can...’eat people,’” he combs through the follow-up details thoroughly, adding an adorable “Tim really outdid himself here” comment along the way. He’s interrupted at the end while adding his own connections. “One other thing bothers me--” before he starts to bring up the fact that his very first research case involved Simon Fairchild! Conclusion: Not dismissed
- TMA 22 - Colony: THE BOY THE BOY THE BOY THE BOY-- Okay down to business. “Okay-- Th...thanks. T-to be honest I-I didn’t, didn’t expect you to...take it seriously.” Also Jon gets cut off mid-sentence, but I love how “I take it deadly serious” is like his Serious Face Archivist Catch Phrase. Conclusion: Believed, starts organizing protections and preparations, takes it more seriously than Elias, Tim, and Sasha
- TMA 23 - Schwartzwald: Another historical statement Jon didn’t need to do follow-up on, but...he does it anyway! “Obviously there isn’t much follow-up to be done here, but to slake my own interest I have done a little bit of digging myself.” He then dives into a highly detailed description of his historical fact-checking, and then concludes with a nervous “it concerns me” when he traces it to Mary Keay. Conclusion: Not dismissed, does more research than necessary
- TMA 24 - Strange Music: “While I have what I would consider to be some natural reservations about a tale of murderous clown dolls, there are a few things that make me more inclined than usual to believe this statement.” Jonathan Archivist Sims that is the most flimsy “normally I’d be skeptical BUT--” you’ve done so far you ridiculous man. “I know for a fact that sitting in the Magnus Institute’s Artefact Storage, is a bright red Calliaphone steam organ.” Jon flat-out admits belief, but wraps it up in this silly “I might be more inclined...” phrasing to mask it. Conclusion: Believed
- TMA 25 - Growing Dark: I have to start with a side note that Jon brings up Martin’s research in this follow-up with no disparaging comments! The last one in the entire series is way back in episode 17.
Anyway! Jon begins with another laughably weak “The last section, naturally, is the one that invites my skepticism, but let us disregard that for now and discuss the other aspects.” AND THEN. He once again makes connections that the police investigation didn’t! Jon connects the amulet with the Church of the Divine Host symbol on it to Julia’s statement, while the statement giver said the police had no interest in it. No interest! In something that connected with the #1 serial killer case in the country!!
It wraps up with yet another “I’d be content enough to ignore this… if it wasn’t for the fact--” along with Jon adding his own Spooky Feelings about it happening the same day as Gertrude’s death. Conclusion: Not dismissed, takes more seriously than the police did, made connections they missed
And yet another batch without a single statement dismissed! Add two to the “fully believed” count, and almost all of these Jon goes above and beyond with connections, research, or taking action. His actions during this segment literally lead to Elias making backhanded comments about how gullible and overreactive Jon is about the supernatural later on, treating him like some sort of “boy who cried wolf” when it came to Prentiss.
Does Jon deny all the statements/the Supernatural ROUND FOUR: TMA 16-20
SO MUCH GOING ON IN THIS RANGE OF EPISODES. You get everything from the most absurd skepticism to Jon getting in fights with Elias again to Jon calling out the police for shortcutting their investigation. Let’s gooooooo
- TMA 16 - Arachnophobia: Here it is pals! The one you’ve all been waiting for! The very first full and complete dismissal and “there’s nothing supernatural about this OBVIOUSLY” statement in the entire series. He drops the follow-up rapidly, barely wanting to touch the case. And, not coincidentally, this is the statement that begins with “Can you be haunted by the ghost of the spider that ruined your childhood?” Conclusion: Dismissed on practical and supernatural level.
- TMA 17 - The Boneturner’s Tale: We go straight from the biggest dismissal to ANOTHER LEITNER. Not only does Jon start with “as it stands now, I believe every word,” but he is ANGY. Jon not only announces that he’s going to confront Elias again, but that it’s a regular conversation by now and he knows how Elias--I must emphasize, the head of the institute!! the one that runs the whole place and sets their goals!!--will just brush him off. “I know he’ll just give me the old 'record and study, not interfere or contain’ speech again,” he grouses. To the tapes. About his boss. The head of the Institute. You gotta love it.
There’s also a later tidbit that stands out: Jon said he was doing “as much research as possible” himself, potentially on his own time as well, to help with the follow-up to track down the book. He took this statement extremely seriously, and only concluded it when their last lead hit a dead-end. Conclusion: Jon is going to fistfight his boss for not taking it seriously enough.
- TMA 18 - The Man Upstairs: Jon starts noncommittal on the wildest detail of the statement, but not dismissive: “I’m not entirely sure I agree [the vanishing meat monster with eyes was real], although obviously there’s little in the way of evidence to the contrary.” And then he adds his own commentary on additional strange details he noticed. Conclusion: Not Dismissed
- TMA 19 - Confession: Part 1 of a two-parter, but it’s noteworthy that Jon doesn’t make any derisive or skeptical comments about what he’s read so far.
- TMA 20 - Desecrated Host: Along with Dreamer, this is another contender for a much-overlooked significant statement reaction. To start, Jon refrains from dismissing or questioning any of the supernatural elements in the story, and points out the significance of Breekon and Hope showing up. But his comments on the police investigation stand out the most: “This all leads me to believe that there may have been a second person there that night, although from talking with the police, I get the impression that there is little appetite for re-opening the case, considering how successful the initial prosecution was.” And the lead-up to it: “What interests me... Also, it strikes me that... Finally, there is the small detail mentioned...” Jon is puzzling it all together himself, noticing details that the official investigation swept under the rug or never noticed in the first place. He ends with a backhanded comment implying that they took shortcuts in their case and closed it too soon. Conclusion: Not dismissed, fuck the police.
So in this stretch we have the dismissal that would come to characterize fandom’s perception of s1 Jon for years to come (bringing our total to two dismissals in the series so far). In turn, this batch brings us TWO cases of Jon criticizing authority for not doing enough, and putting in a lot of extra work himself. Good for him!!!
It seems kinda weird in characterization terms that Jon is seen as a skeptic despite him not dismissing most of the S1 statements. Besides Martin's blowout in ep.39, in ep.162 Tim jokes w/ Sasha about Jon's skeptcism in a tape reccorded when they just got into the archives? What's up with that?
I really don’t know how to take the 162 statement; it kind of jarred with a lot of the details we already had about s1, and given what’s coming out of the Q&A’s I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just an oversight/discrepancy. Timeline stuff has never been TMA’s greatest strength. Jon’s skepticism only began when he started working on the archives, and that was BEFORE Jon had recorded his first statement to tape, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ OH and that’s also disregarding how Sasha *self-describes* as a skeptic in her own statement, believing even less than Jon does, and she didn’t even have an act to keep up. Tim making fun of Skeptic Jon to Skeptic Sasha before Jon even starts exhibiting it is just too far off for me. (Another little example of this kind of thing is 199’s “You explicitly said you’d be fine with me getting chopped up!” vs 14’s “It’s not like I want him to get chopped up.” A lot of s5’s throwbacks were more about vibes than precise details, so I take them with a grain of salt.)
Martin I’m willing to give more excuses. I’m going to dive into this when I wrap up my series, but we have evidence that he doesn’t listen to all the tapes in season 1; in Hive, Jon says “I could say Prentiss is just natural...but I know she’s not.” And then when Jon says the opposite when they’re trapped, it would have made much more sense for Martin to be like “I know you’re lying, I heard you say you know she’s supernatural.”
On top of that, Jon goes through at least a dozen fake statements a week on top of an average of 1 real one. Given that Jon begins to realize that these are 100% fake, he probably unleashes a lot of stress on them. Martin overhears all of this, and is probably referencing that in “you tear them to pieces!!”
And then for both Martin and the fandom, I think Jon’s absurd dismissal of Arachnophobia as natural causes just. Wiped out everything else with how extreme and ridiculous it is. To Martin, it doesn’t matter if Jon seems to take one statement a week fairly seriously (if he even hears it!)—he is SO FRUSTRATED by how ridiculous and ruthless Jon is for so much of the rest. On top of that, Martin himself has a reputation for believing in the statements too easily, so he probably believed a lot of the fake ones too. He doesn’t have Jon’s “something is watching me” truth detector to weed them out.
Does Jon deny all the statements/the Supernatural ROUND THREE: TMA 11-15
Chugging right along! We got some fun ones in this batch. (previous two posts linked in reblog)
- TMA 11 - Dreamer: This is arguably the most significant episode for this analysis. Oliver’s statement was about something the Institute didn’t even allow as a story, let alone evidence, came from a fake name, had no potential for corroboration or verification. AND YET. Jon doesn’t even pretend that he isn’t extremely shaken. He makes a feeble suggestion towards “maybe someone is pranking me?” but immediately follows up with changing the Archives process so that he can make sure to hear any similar predictions for himself firsthand. “If anyone comes in ranting about dreaming my death, then I very much want to hear about it.” Conclusion: Not dismissed
- TMA 12 - First Aid: “There’s obviously a lot to unpack here,” Jon starts, and then launches into all sorts of follow-up--but not a word of skepticism or dismissal. In addition, Jon reviews the camera feed they obtained to line up what it shows with the details of the statement, pointing out where it lines up. This was also not a lazy effort; he adds “I personally counted twenty-eight people” in the shot of the emergency room emptying. Conclusion: Not dismissed
- TMA 13 - Alone: Ah yes one of the notorious ones...and very mischaracterized ones. This one starts with the statement-giver insisting it’s “all in her head,” an expression of emotional trauma, while JON counters with a piece of evidence she brought in with her. The ever-controversial argument at the end began with “We’ll need to do some investigation into a few of the details that you raised, but at first impressions...” Not “you’re lying” or even her own words of “it’s all in your head.” That is then immediately followed by “Beyond that, it’s difficult to prove either way, but I would suggest you leave the stone with us, so we can study it.” You have a very noncommittal answer with the promise to investigate, which gets taken as some sort of mockery.
The post-statement follows the same format as many of the earlier statements; there is a fair amount of evidence against the statement, but Jon concludes, “I’d be tempted to chalk this one up to a hallucination from stress and trauma, if it wasn’t for the fact that...” The stone itself ends up in Artefact Storage as an Officially Spooky Item. Conclusion: Not dismissed
- TMA 14 - Piecemeal: Researcher Jonathan immediately begins with “It doesn’t look like this case was ever properly followed up,” which of course his team is amending. He gives a long list of details they learned in their follow up, and despite difficulties gathering information doesn’t say a word of skepticism. Conclusion: Not dismissed
- TMA 15 - Lost John’s Cave: Here is another one where nearly all the evidence they found contradicted the details of the statement, but even then Jon doesn’t dismiss it. He points out all of the spooky details, admitting how unnerving they are, and then concludes with “I have made the decision not to follow up our findings with Ms. Popham”--given the tone of voice, this arguably was a decision made out of sensitivity rather than disdain. Conclusion: Not dismissed
No new dismissals in this batch, and Jon barely even performing any doubt. And one that he took so seriously that he continued to try to change the Institute’s processes so he can have more immediate access to similar statements!
Does Jon deny all the statements/the Supernatural ROUND TWO: TMA 6-10
Continuing through (original post linked in reblog)! This is where things get wobbly. In all likelihood, this is where the denial coping mechanism starts forming. Enough real statements have been recorded by now that Jon has likely made the connection between them and the feeling of being watched, and the feeling of being watched with the fear of a malevolent presence listening to him. Jon still doesn’t flat-out deny any of them, but you can start seeing notes of Jon being performative about how he isn’t convinced it’s supernatural. Even so, we haven’t hit “this is for sure fake” yet.
- TMA 6 - Squirm: This one had evidence conflicting with the story, but Jon is like “okay whether or not this story is true, Prentiss is real and she is out there.” He even reports the story to the ECDC so they can follow up with Timothy Hodge because of the danger. “I just hope it’s not too late already.” Conclusion: Not dismissed, extra steps taken to combat the danger.
- TMA 7 - The Piper: As it’s a very old historical statement, there is no commentary on whether it’s real or supernatural or not.
- TMA 8 - Burned Out: The first spidery statement! Jon gets dramatic and performative about how silly it all sounds, but even then turns around to say it can’t be easily dismissed. “Still, glibness aside, the history of 105 Hill Top Road does bear investigation. And while I trust Mr. Lensik’s testimony of his own experiences about as far as I can throw a bleeding tree...the suggestion that there may be external corroboration does lend some potential credence to Mr. Lensik’s wild tale.” Conclusion: Not dismissed.
- TMA 9 - A Father’s Love: Similar to Anglerfish, Jon runs through a list of corroborating details before adding his own vague Spooky Feelings to it: “Three points of interest occur...at the time of his death the light bulb in his cell was found to have blown out, leaving him in darkness.” Conclusion: Not dismissed, Jon adding his own connections.
- TMA 10 - Vampire Hunter: “Personally, I don’t know what to think. I certainly don’t believe in wild tales of vampirism, but I can’t help but notice--” Once again, we have the pattern of “this is far-fetched, BUT.” Jon does conclude at the end that he doesn’t believe the vampiric part of the statement, but it hits that weird note of performance again, a sort of “I mean I don’t believe any of this, but here’s a long list of reasons why someone else might believe it.” Conclusion: Supernatural element dismissed, though stated as solely on a personal level.
1/4 of the way through season 1, and so far you only have one dismissal, and even that one is couched in a lot of disclaimers. Meanwhile you have Jon taking two of the statements deadly seriously, pushing for more to be done, as well as several where he took it more seriously than the statement-giver, and a few where he adds his own Spooky Feelings to the follow-up.
Does Jon actually deny the supernatural/call all statements fake in Season 1?
As promised!! You’ve seen the chatter already, but as I do another TMA relisten I am going to make a methodical examination of whether season 1 Jon actually fits the “can’t believe he works at an Institute that studies the supernatural but doesn’t believe in it!” “all of this is bullshit” fandom shitpost characterization he gets, or even Martin’s “how could you possibly still not believe?”
For each episode, I’m going to cover:
- Whether Jon actually concludes the statement is fake - Whether Jon insists on a non-supernatural explanation - Compare how seriously Jon takes it vs. the statement-giver or others already involved - Follow-up action taken, if applicable
I was going to do all this in one post at the end, but no one wants to read something that long, so LET’S GO FIRST FIVE
- TMA 1 - Anglerfish: “I was initially included to file this as ‘Discredited,’ HOWEVER--” Right off the bat we have Jon saying he doesn’t dismiss the account, despite not being able to corroborate anything about it. What they were able to track down was scattered and vague, but THEN HE VERY NON-OBJECTIVELY ADDS THAT HE GETS A SPOOKY FEELING: “I find it oddly hard to shake off the impression that it’s beckoning.” Conclusion: Not dismissed.
- TMA 2 - Do Not Open: Jon does start with “this is just a story,” noting that the statement had already been investigated and they found no corroboration, evidence, or witnesses. AND THEN. “That said, I did mention it to Tim yesterday, and apparently he did some digging of his own.” He then concludes that there’s no logical explanation for what Tim finds. Conclusion: Half-dismissed, and the supernatural not ruled out for Tim’s evidence.
- TMA 3 - Across the Street: THIS IS A FUN ONE. To start, Jon rules out dismissal: “I’d be tempted to dismiss this as hallucinations, BUT--” What’s more, Jon expresses frustration about hitting a wall in the investigation, and takes a tone of disbelief with “she wasn’t even interested that we found his creepy journals??” Conclusion: Not dismissed, and Jon takes it more seriously than the statement-giver.
- TMA 4 - Page Turner: HERE WE HAVE LEITNERS FOLKS. Jon is ANGY!! Jon is going to FIGHT. Jon WILL BE BRINGING THIS UP WITH ELIAS and is going to lecture him about Institute Priorities, and probably got that lecture in return of ‘we’re supposed to observe, not intervene.’ “Jurgen Leitner has done the world enough harm and we must pursue all available avenues to ensure that he does no more.” GO OFF!!!! Conclusion: Not dismissed, Jon is going to kick the ass of anyone who doesn’t take this seriously and DO something about it.
- TMA 5 - Thrown Away: This is the most opposite of the fandom shitpost Jon you can get. Jon begins by saying he was able to verify almost the whole thing, but then comes the interesting part: “He has largely discounted many of the stranger aspects of his experience. I wasn’t expecting much, as time generally makes people inclined to forget what they would rather not believe.” Here you have the statement-giver denying the supernatural elements of his story, and JON disagreeing and saying the statement-giver is most likely just in denial. Conclusion: Not dismissed, Jon takes it more seriously than the statement-giver.
SO just in the first 5 episodes, not only do you not have a single full dismissal or denial of the supernatural, but more than half have Jon taking it more seriously than others, whether it be the statement-giver or the head of the Institute.
Also look at him just a few weeks at his new position and already lecturing top management about not doing enough to protect people. We love to see it.
Started a TMA relisten last night with some friends and main take-away from the first four episodes:
- Oh no I love Jon so much I could die yes he’s a dreadful brat yes I would die a thousand deaths for him
- Listen to him trying to deepen his voice three octaves and putting on that silly posh accent. Listen to the way he says “esoteric” this ridiculous man
- “El oh el” TWENTY SEVEN YEAR OLD GRANDPA I ADORE YOU
- The voice Jon uses for female statement givers....very good very gender
- Out of the first four statements, ZERO have been dismissed and one hit “I’m going to rampage at Elias about this and get lectured for trying to be too active and too involved”
- Ex Altiora is still the sexiest thing in the show
- Gerry my son my darling my beloved too good for this world
Jon in Season 5 Statements
“You want to talk about psychological projection? Try viewing the world through the lens of the being that is, by its very nature, a reflection of your own obsessions and fears.”
I’ve done a few isolated posts about how various statements in season 5 have given me Jon Feelings (tm), but they’re becoming so frequent and direct I’m realizing there is definitely a pattern forming. It makes complete sense in the worldbuilding as well, with how Jon framed it in the above quote: he has experienced every fear, and this new world was created from how those fears left their marks on him. On a storytelling level, many of the statements end up serving as both blunt social commentary and subtle character exploration.
The ones I’ve ironed out so far are:
165 Revolutions - Identity issues, the fear of changing into something else in season 3, the “did I wake up as myself or just as The Archivist?” fear in season 4
166 The Worms - How those who were trapped in the same situation as Jon lashed out at him to cope with helplessness (see my full meta post here)
172 Strung Out - Jon’s lifelong struggle with the Web, addiction, his hunger, and victim-blaming. (see summary here)
173 Night Night - Jon running from monsters his whole life and never finding safety (see full meta post here)
175 Epoch - Breaking pieces of himself off to chronicle the horrors he sees, unable to help. Self-loathing about how he wanted to protect people but was just a Useless Umbrella. “The catalog of horrors she’s compiling, this report on everything for nobody, but what else is she to do? What else can even come close to quelling the fear that suffuses her existence?”
177 Wonderland - Elias’s constant gaslighting, all of season 2 (especially Elias treating Jon as “acting out” during a supernaturally-fueled paranoid breakdown), Jon’s suffering being minimized or dismissed as his own fault, victim-blaming victim-blaming victim-blaming
178 The Processing Line - Jon treating his body like a commodity to cut pieces off of to help people, only for it to end up useless. (from @gertruderobinsonscat‘s post here)
people act like Jon didn’t believe in anything supernatural at the beginning of TMA and like, yeah he was often skeptical, but he speaks at great length to the veracity of certain statements like anything to do with the fans’ wife jane prentiss and fuck boy jurgen leitner. he’s been working at the institute for a few years, the boy is on board just not for bullshit!! and ngl, some of those statements, if i didn’t have prior knowledge, sound like bullshit!!!
I actually have been thinking of putting together a list of Jon’s responses to the season 1 statements, because the first time I relistened through them after being saturated in months of “Jon denies everything supernatural” I was genuinely shocked at how much credit he gives them. In fact, he usually gives them more credit that the authorities’ conclusions—the two-part Confession/Desecrated Host statement is a great example. In this, Jon says he feels there’s more to the story than the police concluded, deducing that someone else had to have been present for the actual murders and suggests the police closed the case too quickly.
I’m an auditor, and we use a term called “professional skepticism” as the core of our work. Since we’re literally hired just to ascertain whether things are true, we have to come at it with professional skepticism to not just take everything at face value just because someone told us. Given that most of the statements received by the Archives (especially around Halloweeen!) record digitally, they receive a lot of fake ones, so I imagine that being a researcher requires a level of professional skepticism as well. Even Sasha considers herself a skeptic, but immediately goes on to say she’s not in denial of the supernatural.
(In my first listen-through, the only case of skepticism that struck me as over-the-top was in Arachnophobia, which we now know was a major trauma trigger for Jon. Martin, meanwhile, thinks Jon dismisses too many statements, but is absolutely including the ones that Jon already knows are fake.)
There’s a really fun implication in the s1 finale that Elias hints at, that Jon was a bit of a wildfire in research. He tells Sasha that he didn’t take Jon’s demands for protection vs Prentiss seriously, because “oh I thought Jon was exaggerating, you know how he and Martin are.” As early as episode 17, Jon also complains about being repeatedly dismissed by Elias when he tries to get him to actually act:
Jon: I’m going to have a discussion with Elias as to what we can do to address the issue. I know he’ll just give me the old “record and study, not interfere or contain” speech again, but I at least need to make him aware of it.
It paints kind of an amazing potential interpretation of Jon making a reputation for himself as being TOO believing of the supernatural, and wanting to get in there and STOP it, only to turn around and play himself up as a skeptic as soon as he’s promoted. The former makes even more sense when you consider his background and the reason why he joined the Institute in the first place—and why his “I need to pretend I don’t believe this to fool the Thing Watching Me” act completely vanishes when it comes to making sure Leitners can’t hurt anyone else.
I just started my TMA relisten and I was ready for all the “this is probably something completely mundane, all obvious evidence to the contrary aside” that Jon is throwing out. But he doesn’t really do that in Across the Street, does he? He doesn’t come out and say that he believes it, but he can’t discount this one. Already there are cracks in his walls.
I do think Jon’s dismissal of the statements is exaggerated a bit for fandom humor—in my first listen, I was totally convinced that the show was just going to be sifting through supernatural cold cases for a few details adding up to a handful of real cases. The meta knowledge that all statements are true changes so much. Also, he doesn’t pretend away the ones he already knows to be true (Prentiss, Leitner). Even ones like Vampire Hunter he sounds on the fence, like “vampirism claims are so wild but I don’t know what to think.”
It’s interesting to note that the one related to his own trauma throws him into the blatantly unreasonable excuses, and it starts going downhill after that as he relies on the coping mechanism more and more.